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1

Karajorma
comment|66263|86810

I don't think it's white being better so much as not really believing (or not thinking they can get the parents to believe) that someone non-white can be just as much an American or Brit as a white American or Brit.

Nov 10, 2015 10:03 Report Abuse

2

Guest2104776
comment|67006|233864

Obviously you're not a teacher, yet your expertise on teachers is amazing. Well done I say. What with you having an opinion yet knowing nothing. Here here! Requiring those big-fivers to learn Chinese for several years before suffering it out in China will help a lot. Local parents won't mind spending double for a foreigner to tell little Wu that he can go pee-pee in Chinese. Teaching little Wu how to ask in English is just too hard of course. Four years and $80K is a small thing for a future educator in comparison. And... What idiot has EVER referred to him or herself as being from the big five? It's a Chinese law, not something people refer to themselves as. And its a guarantee of the illegal FEC of the Russian teacher this article is all about. Furthermore, all of my many friends are great guys; mostly married with kids. We take our classes seriously, make awesome money and have earned some respect. Then some spithead like you comes along and says we are "mostly" sex fiends and drunks. Why don't you come over here while I drunkenly shove sharp objects into your sexual places you prick. So, yah, your opinions are all wrong and mostly crap. But thanks for the time waste.

Dec 01, 2015 05:49 Report Abuse

3

bravura
comment|67358|247571

And this is just the perfect example of a native teacher in China looking forward to ''throw sharp objects at sexual places'', I hope you don't have such ideas when you get irritated with your students. If I heard such expressions from a teacher of my child I would smash your little brain with bear hands. You are just another loser, you are just unaware of this. Lucky you it is the internet.

Dec 10, 2015 15:18 Report Abuse

4

Guest14460006
comment|67642|1606667

Rawr. Bear hands. Rawr.

Dec 19, 2015 23:57 Report Abuse

5

Guest2104776
comment|68024|233864

Lol, yes I must have been on a roll that night; quite funny I was. Sorry if I pushed it too far. But you did call me and my friends sex fiends and drunks. so that led me to segue into what a drunken sexual predator might say. You know, cuz you called me one, even though I've never hurt you nor met you. Do you get that reaction now? And I was being sarcastic in reply to your initial attack. Your violent outburst crosses a whole new line. FYI, I don't drink and I'm in a committed relationship. But the point is, you're a prick who puts down people you don't know to make yourself feel superior. Foreigners already have a horrible time with racism here, and you'll just make it worse, spreading the ignorance at our expense. I don't like bullies and I don't like bigots, and I will protect kids and anyone else from someone as vile as you. So bring on the bear hands little man, If you must. I'll try not to giggle at the neanderthal.

Jan 12, 2016 06:16 Report Abuse

6

umzung
comment|66161|1578984

Second language teachers understand the problems students face when learning that language. But can they teach pronunciation, accent and elision? Maybe, maybe not.

Nov 06, 2015 09:20 Report Abuse

7

Guest2503130
comment|66144|278125

I generally disagree with the whole "non-natives can't teach a language", however, there could be huge discrepancies in accent and skill (e.g. between a near-native Dutch or Scandinavian and a Russian). Still, a TEFL does not say ANYTHING about this and cultural knowledge and accent ARE important for language learning after all.

Nov 06, 2015 03:55 Report Abuse

8

Shining_brow
comment|66140|64095

The "editor" who wrote the 'note' at the top is clearly an IDIOT! And an ignorant one, at that! Firstly, you'll only find a VERY RARE qualified language teacher who thinks non-native language (ie, not L1) teachers shouldn't teach. The vast majority of os (and I'd put that at around 99%) don't think it's a problem - IF THE TEACHER IS ACTUALLY COMPETENT AT THE LANGUAGE! There is a line here that "there isn't a problem with Chinese teachers teaching English"... ummm - yes, there is! Most of them aren't competent at English! They've never been outside of China, they've never seriously had to communicate in English! "Editor's Note: Their childrens' education is still priority number one for many Chinese parents. They are spending large portions of their income on English classes, and expect an advanced vocabulary and proper grammar in return. Many believe non-native English speakers should not teach English. For us, someone who has had to learn English can probably teach it better than someone that speaks it naturally. The parents of these students disagree, and did not keep their opinions to themselves. This translated article reports on the legal battle between a Russian ESL teacher and his students' parents. " FFS!!! The issue with a non-native speaker teaching a language is NOT grammar or vocabulary!!! (and, since I've tried A NUMBER of languages, I KNOW that's not the issue!) What the issue is - ALWAYS - is pronunciation, and idiomatic language! I mentioned ignorance above, for the editor... "TEFL" is NOT a friggin certification... it's merely an acronym which has very little meaning! Same with TESOL... in and of itself, it has very little meaning! Now, if you said CELTA -oh, now we have some thing that has meaning in this context! So, editor and story writer ("story" being an appropriate word!) - get your facts straight! This Russian 'teacher'... teaching university level compared to teaching young kids... whole world of difference!!!! 6 months of "family education"... hahahahahaaasa....... No offense Russian teacher - you may be fantastic at teaching at uni, and you're English might be spotless... you may have all the best qualifications you can get, but if the parents were told by the school that they'd have a native speaker of English - then they lied! (and, I suspect, if the school didn't lie, and didn't charge an arm and a leg for this supposed native speaker - then there probably wouldn't have been any issue here at all! Or, if the school gave back some of the money for their deception, they still might be amenable to having a Russian teacher!

Nov 05, 2015 21:43 Report Abuse

9

Karajorma
comment|66207|86810

If someone is a native English teacher but believes that non-native teachers shouldn't teach, they must have a really low opinion of themselves. Surely a goal of teaching a foreign language is to allow the person learning to reach fluency. So why teach if you believe you aren't ever going to get someone there?

Nov 07, 2015 10:53 Report Abuse

10

Shining_brow
comment|66209|64095

Actually, no. Someone can teach, KNOWING they will never get someone to fluency (ie, virtually all Chinese teachers of a foreign language), but they can HELP get them there. Also, in China, kids aren't taught to get them to fluency - and the schools and the teachers know this. They teach languages cos someone told them to! Thus, NS teachers aren't here to actually 'teach' the language, they're here because of some government laws... and most are just getting paid for that. If it was about ACTUAL teaching, then most would never be able to work here, because the qualifications and experience would be a requirement - the same as in most other countries!

Nov 07, 2015 12:24 Report Abuse

11

Karajorma
comment|66262|86810

I've got to disagree with that. It doesn't matter whether you are qualified or not. What matters is your motivation. Sure, there are a lot of students who will never become fluent. But if someone is the kind of teacher actually believes that no one you are involved with the teaching of can ever reach fluency, no matter what you do. If you believe you're just here to do a job, make some money and bang some Chinese girls, then you are no doubt one of the stains on the teaching profession in China. That should always be one of your goals, even if you know very few (if any) of your students will ever achieve it. Even if (like most Chinese teachers) you know that your teaching skills won't be the ones that actually finally get them to fluency, you should believe that they can get them some of the way there. What bugs me is the belief that a Chinese teacher couldn't possibly be as good, no matter how well educated they are. If someone believes that, they should go home.

Nov 10, 2015 07:38 Report Abuse

12

ScotsAlan
comment|66137|276144

Another thing to take note of with the above story, is that this school is advertised as an international kindergarten. Check their website. They advertise for native speaker teachers only. This appeals to the target market. Chinese nationals married to foreigners, or foreign couples, who want to immerse their young kids in English to prepare them for the return to the home country. Foreign parents are often too busy working to prepare their kids for the move. The Chinese half of the partnership might consider their own English too accented. They might want to prepare the kids for the the move from kindergarten in China to a primary school in a native country.

Nov 05, 2015 19:46 Report Abuse

13

silverbutton1
comment|66134|227751

Libel = writing false/ misleading info. slander = speaking false/ misleading info. if its wechat, its potentially slanderous, not libelous. Also, if the comments are true, its not slanderous. Lastly, the only other thing that comes to mind would be "defamation of character" suit, but again, it would have to be based on false/ misleading info.

Nov 05, 2015 18:53 Report Abuse

14

ScotsAlan
comment|66135|276144

It was in a private wechat chat group as far as I am aware. Not posted on the wall. I need to check with the wife... she is a member of the mentioned group.

Nov 05, 2015 19:27 Report Abuse

15

ahopkins767
comment|66130|102175

An epic own goal by MILO. Now everyone knows they hire Russians and they never got their 2000 Kwai either. They shot themselves in the foot with that. Clever clever head teacher.

Nov 05, 2015 16:41 Report Abuse

16

ScotsAlan
comment|66123|276144

Yup. As hotwater says above, the actual issue the parents complained about is not mentioned in the above article at all. The complaint was that they had paid high fees because the school said they hired native English speakers, and that native English speakers were more expensive to employ. The native speaking teacher left the school and was replaced by a non native speaker. The mothers felt cheated and felt they should pay less school fees. The parents know schools pay non native speakers less. The school refused to reduce their fees so the parents moved their kids somewhere else. This story actually reinforces what many people say in the answers section of this site. Schools charge more for native speakers.

Nov 05, 2015 15:30 Report Abuse

17

Hotwater
comment|66121|275636

The key issue here, not mentioned in the above article, is that a lot of the parents paid big fees to this kindergarten on the promise that they were going to hire a native English teacher. The kindergarten hasn't done that. I've no problem with anyone teaching English as long as they speak the language correctly and have some sort of qualifications/experience. The issue here is that the kindergarten lied to parents.

Nov 05, 2015 15:01 Report Abuse

18

silverbutton1
comment|66133|227751

happening at my school right now, but with chinese teaching in chinese and not english...instead of native speakers from developed countries. $16,000 a year, and getting a royal screwing over. only matter of time before the shiite hits the fan here. i dont want to be around when it does...

Nov 05, 2015 18:47 Report Abuse

19

sharifmy
comment|66158|259313

here here

Nov 06, 2015 07:47 Report Abuse

20

sharifmy
comment|66120|259313

' What does it matter if the cat is black or white so long as it catches the mouse.' This claptrap about whites/native speaker teachers are MUSTis beginning to show how narrow minded some of these so called parents are. Where do they think their child is going to grow up in a caccoon! No, they probably want that child to go study/live abroad somewhere, in world that has a greater intermixe of people of all colours and creeds. Would it not be better that they grew up learning,understanding that their are host of people out there speaking better English than those 'native whites.' Hey, wake up the cultural revelution is over,remember you hated the white foreign devils! Give the kids a chance dont brain wash them into believing what you believe because you never a chance. My ranting over! sorry letting off steam.

Nov 05, 2015 14:47 Report Abuse

21

ScotsAlan
comment|66126|276144

Ha ha. It's a good rant. And I agree with you regarding teaching skills and English ability being the important factor, not country of origin. But you are wrong about these parents. They are not narrow minded at all, quite the opposite. Have a look at my post below where I indicate what has been left out of the story. We may not agree with the PSB rules for teaching in first tier cities ( native speaker and all that), but the rules are there and these parents know them well. Of course they do, they are married to foreigners. They paid higher fees because they wanted the best teachers. They know you have to be a native speaker to be totally legit as a teacher in GZ. So when a non native teacher appears, they asked questions. They were paying for professional teachers. The kids are not being brainwashed by the way. They are half Chinese/ half British. They have entitlement to live in the UK. They are native Chinese and native Brits. So they know all about multiculturalism.

Nov 05, 2015 16:08 Report Abuse

22

sharifmy
comment|66157|259313

Very good points on kids emulating their teachers.

Nov 06, 2015 07:46 Report Abuse

23

sharifmy
comment|66164|259313

I sorry if I gave the impression that the kids dont have entitlement to live in UK. Basically the parents were lied too/ missled by the school and they are entited ask questions concerning their childrens education at this school.

Nov 06, 2015 10:29 Report Abuse

24

mhager
comment|66183|71763

' What does it matter if the cat is black or white so long as it catches the mouse.' That is a false equivalency, catching a mouse is binary the cat either does or doesn't, where as teaching English is not, it is about how effective the teacher is at all aspects of their teaching. A non-native speaker can never be as good as a native speaker at teaching the spoken elements of English, from pronunciation, tone, intonation and cultural understanding. A lot of those are things that cannot be learnt in the same way that something like grammar can. A native speaker can always improve their grammar if they are dedicated to improving their teaching. In a perfect world every English teacher in China would be a native speaker, who studied education and specifically ESL. Obviously this is not possible as the demand for English teachers far outweighs the supply of properly qualified native speakers. But you can't blame the parents for wanting the best possible teachers for their children, especially if as ScotsAlan said they were promised (and paid for) a native speaker and that was not delivered.

Nov 06, 2015 20:15 Report Abuse

25

Karajorma
comment|66206|86810

@ScotsAlan Then explain why Sally said “Russians cannot teach English. Not as long as there is a white person that can fill the roll,” instead of something sensible about having a native English speaker fill that role. That comment basically torpedoes your entire argument, she quite obviously doesn't understand multiculturalism if she doesn't realise there are non-white Brits.

Nov 07, 2015 10:46 Report Abuse