Help Thy Neighbour: Explaining Civic Apathy in China

Thats where youre mistaken. The problem lies mainly with the older generation. The new generations are very different and more ''?nternational'' than you think.

any kid with an IPAD who has an AYi do the chores around the house is spoiled. Children are infantized here to the point it's despicable...how many teenagers from well to do families have ever worked, or even washed their own dishes for that matter.
This problem has many root causes, and it starts with parenting.

Working hard is relative in China. They work long and slow but not hard. Go to Pizza Hut sometime. You'll see 20 workers doing what a couple of American workers could easily manage.

Stupid how the writer brings up a similar US case from almost 50 years ago to smooth over that this is not just a Chinese thing. You can't compare this case with the Kitty Genovese case. Read the facts. It's not even close to the same as people walking and riding past an injured toddler. It was a completely different set of circumstances and many of the witnesses were not even aware she being attacked. And it was also an abomination, and still is. Here it's business as usual. Yesterday I watched an ambulance take several minutes to enter the driveway of the hospital because nobody would give way even with the siren going and view of paramedics working on somebody . Nice try, attempting to show that that Americans are just as heartless as Chinese.

Rubbish! Many of them ARE spoiled, and think the world owes them a living. Chinese kids would not last five minutes in Australia for instance.

We all have our skeletons in nthe closet and put economic greed ahead of our fellow man. The circumstances are just different. Here in China this example was about people not seeing the girl because it may cost them money. But how is that very different than Americans not demanding that their governent take more tax from them so they can provide health care for everybody in their own country. The only difference is that you dont see the cancer patient dying because of lack of health insurance or money to pay for the treatment. Let us all take this one step further, the ones of us who can afford our big screen tellies, designer handbags, ipads and expensive cars or the like. We choose not to see those starving in Africa or flood ravaged in Bangladesh etc, because many of us dont want to give up all out creature comforts.
Not saying it is the same but there are few of us that dont (figuratively) walk past a dieing person (in fact many) ever day that we could save.

In response to your post Shaun, Australian kids would not survive in china. School is 8 hours a day 6 days a week. Working hours for a Doctor is 10 hr days for 6 days a week with a pay of $ 500 a month. $500 for 192 hours work as a medical professional. No social security ..no work no eat !! And you need to provide for your parents/grandparents as well..it is your duty.

You are correct. Only farmers and construction workers work hard in China.
The Chinese "work ethic" is stereotypical nonsense that many foreigners stupidly believe in. Yes, the Chinese spend a lot of time at work, but they don't do much. An American or Australian worker leaves a Chinese for dead as far as efficiency as competence is concerned.

I would argue that in Australia kids are expected to get part-time jobs when they are at high school. Around about 23 or 24 you are expected to have a full time job. No handouts from Mummy and Daddy. No living at home with parents. I know men and women in China in their thirties who still live with their parents. Really pathetic! Chinese kids should be sent to the Australian outback, toughen up these spoilt brats!

You have no idea what you are talking about. Most Chinese people lead much tougher lives than most Australians could bear. Handouts from mummy and daddy? If anything in China it is young people who have the pressure of knowing that one day they will have to support their parents, since pensions don't exist. And the competition is much harder for everything.

You are talking only about the richest Chinese, not about most of them. What about the children of the Ayi? And anyway those teenagers don't work because they are too busy preparing for their high school exams.

It is you,Jixiang, that has no idea what you're talking about. Most of the foreigners here have been around. I've lived half my life in several different countries and travelled to more than 30. The only Chinese that I've seen working reasonably hard are the street cleaners(since Chinese can't be bothered to dispose of their own trash) I've been in construction business the whole time and it is only because of the sheer number of workers that anything gets done here. They wouldn't last an hour on a USA project. I lived in a college dorm with 8 boys for several months and never once did I see them studying or do anything except play computer games and/or basketball. The "excellent" Chinese work ethic is a myth that was started by Chinese who have no idea what working hard means or some foreigners kissing Chinese ass.

I am sure I have more inside experience of Chinese society than you do. Yes, shops and constructions sites will have masses of workers when only a few would be necessary, because the labour is so cheap in China. That does mean that in some ways, these people may not have to work very hard. However, China is also full of examples of people working terribly hard the whole time, and it is certainly not limited to street sweepers. You should see how hard most Chinese graduates work in their companies. And no, they don't spend all their time on qq at work.

As for the students you stayed with, it is well known that in China undergrads in university don't work very hard, but this is in marked contrast with school kids, who work like crazy. University is just about the only time in life when most Chinese really get to relax, and they don't expect to be given too much work to do.
In any case, the Chinese work ethic is not a myth the Chinese started, it's a reality which was noticed by foreigners who came into contact with the Chinese, and it is noticeable in all countries with a Chinese cultural background (Korea, Japan, Vietnam).

Wrong on all all accounts. I'll just say that your definition of what contitutes hard work doesn't match most westerner's. I've hired Chinese workers in the US and they worked just fine once they adapted to the level of the other workers because hard work is infectious. And it starts with a good boss that is first to arrive, works harder than any of them and is the last to go home. A boss that shows up in his fancy car at 11 in the morning with baiju and cigarette breath everyday isn't going to get alot of production from his employees. I am at an office now. Looking around, I see 3 girls napping on their desk(it's not even lunchtime yet) Every cubicle has the QQ on, 2 men are surfing the Internet, 1 girl is playing a computer game another is shopping for cookware and the manager that is supposed to make sure the work is being done is busy stealing some vegetables on the farmer computer game. Just another day at the office.

Jixiang and Harry,
I think you both have good points. There are those people that play QQ all day long at work. I know because I'm the consultant for 40 of them at our company. Let me assume that my work environment is an indication of similar work environments in SW China. The first tier cities are going to be completely different. Half of my workforce are playing on QQ or sleeping or watching movies. That is 50%. The other half are making up for it by working well into the night. There are several reasons for this poorly distributed workload. First, there is a severe shortage of talented individuals. Skilled technicians are few and far between. I'm not able to assign projects to some workers because they don't know how to do it. So I have to train them on how to do really basic stuff like creating a pdf file or using Microsoft Office. Secondly, a lot of the time these workers who are playing games don't have any work to do, but they are salaried employees, so the company makes them stay at work for 8 hours. If China would adopt hourly wages on a wide scale instead of signing contracts with everybody, then the company would have more control over its wages expense and send people home if there is not work for them to do. It is my job to change the management style in my company. I am like a coach most of the day. I blame the malfunctions on China's inability to embrace more Western management models. However, it is changing. One of the things that is so rediculous is getting people to work smart, not hard. Use the right tools for the right job. I see an army of chinese guys all with pic axes chopping away at concrete. What the hell for? Use a jack hammer! It takes 20 guys to do the same job that 2 guys could do. My company doesn't track their expenses. There is no system of accounting, there is only the bank statement that shows money in and out every month. But no keeping invoices, no accounts receivables, nothing. It's like driving a car blindfolded. I really think these are just all a part of the growing pains of a developing nation. I think you are both correct, there are both types. However, I think it is a poor work load distribution caused mainly by the lack of skilled labor.

Chaching.....noted and agreed. Excellent points.

I agree to a point. It is not just the richest, it is all of the new middle class.
Many of the middle class kids are looking for every way out of working for gaokao. That is why they want to go to the west to study, because they want to avoid or have already failed gaokao.

I read an article on here (I think) about generational differences. To crudely summarise - The Children of the 70s are workaholics, the children of the 80s don't want to do overtime, the children of the 90s don't want to work.

I have taught in Chinese universities and middle schools in the last 5 years. Probably only about 20% of students have any real study ethic, or good study habits. Most expect to be given a grade. And parents expect to be able to buy the kid out of poor academic prospects, this includes buying pass grades.

What you are describing is the reuslt of backwardness and lack of skills. Like you said, China is still a developing country, and it shows. However, this doesn't take away from my point that Chinese people tend to be ready to work very hard when they have to.

jixiang,
Bless your heart. I mean the best, but you need to get away from this idea that working hard is good. Let me give you an example. My boss wants us to implement these new forms that track the sales department. However, filling out these new forms actually hinders our ability to sell. It is a form of "micro-management." Have you heard of this term? My point is, there is a big difference between working "hard" and working "smart." You sound like a Chinese citizen. Or, you have not been educated in Western schools. Employees can work themselves to death on a project and only produce half the results that another company can produce. Why? Because they work hard, not smart. It is my job to streamline processes, it is my job to teach the Chinese how to multi-task, it is my job to break the mold of "linear-thinking" in order to show the Chinese people that they are capable of great things. We will accomplish great things together. However, it is never, never about working hard. Never! That is the root of the problem in the Chinese workforce. They work hard, but not smart. Again, I attribute this to the lack of skilled labor. The root of the problem. Education in China is poor. Plain and simple. They can do long division faster than anyone in the world, but what use is it when we have calculators? Again, smart, not hard!

I am not a Chinese, and I was educated in the West. I never said that working hard is all that matters, just that the Chinese do work hard. Working smartly matters of course, but I guess working hard matters too, since if you work smartly one hour a day you won't get as much done as someone who works un-smartly for 12 hours a day.

In any case, I am just fed up with all these foreigners saying that it's a myth that the Chinese don't work hard, when they don't have a clue what many Chinese have to go through.

Oh, quit your whining. You're fed up with foreigners that think Chinese are lazy and feel the need to defend them? Well, boo fkn hoo. Go talk to any "western" foreigner that's tried to open a factory, company, etc and they'll tell you if you need 1 good worker...you need to hire 5. Anyway, you already lost any credibility when with the "Chinese is a developing country" excuse.

It is not an excuse, it is a reasonable point that China is a developing country. The difficulties you describe are to do with the lack of skill of a lot of Chinese workers, and maybe to the bureaucracy, but certainly not to an unwillingness to work hard. Nobody who has seriously got to know the Chinese would ever describe them as unwilling to work hard, at least on average.
By the way, see my blog post with my opinion about the girl who was run over at thecapitalinthenorth.blogspot.com

I've done alot of projects in several developing countries and Chinese were by far the slowest and it doesn't take alot of skill to handle a shovel or lift things. That's all I'm going to say about this and agree to disagree. My point is...Chinese don't need you to defend them, they are perfectly capable of heaping plenty of verbal abuse and from a far more ignorant view than you or me. I'm fed up with a few things myself. Drivers trying to run me down even when I'm in the crosswalk and have the green light, the magnitude of animal abuse, Chinese "face" culture and their thin-skinnedness to accept responsibility for even the smallest things,etc and all the foreigners with their tongue so far up China's ass that they're always willing to be PC and afraid to call a spade a spade. I'm American and get shit on everyday on the web by every country in the world even though I didn't vote for either of the George Bushes nor ever pointed a gun at anyone. I have struggles everyday and wasn't born with any silver spoon or priviledge other than those afforded to any average American. Do you think I know nothing about suffering or being hungry or feeling other people's pain? Am I "imperialist" or "colonialist" because I think Chinese should try harder and just be honest and polite? Welcome to my world. If I can put up with the constant criticism then you should expect Chinese to have to deal with it too and let them speak for themselves.